Innovation at the Heart of Naval Power

00:00:07: Waves under the Sea, The podcast that makes the invisible audible.

00:00:17: Conflicts have always been periods of accelerated technological progress.

00:00:23: The shared history of Thales and the French Navy began in nineteen ten.

00:00:28: There is no victory without technology.

00:00:31: Thales' role as not only to support navies but also help them anticipate future challenges.

00:00:42: In twenty d-twenty six the french navy celebrates its four hundredth anniversary.

00:00:47: For four centuries, France has maintained permanent armed crews and naval vessels at sea.

00:00:53: As a trusted partner of the French Navy since the creation of the Société Francaise Radio-Electrique in ten, Thales is part of this long and continuous chapter of French national history.

00:01:05: Over more than one century of collaboration The French navy have worked together to develop innovations that enabled them adapt to strategic technological changes.

00:01:19: In this episode of Waves Under the Sea, we'll explore this close partnership with Admiral Eric Chaperone Naval Defense Advisor at TALES and Jean-Marie Kowalski Senior Lecturer At The French Naval Academy And Specialist in the History Of Innovation.

00:01:34: To begin our discussion, Jean Marie Kowalski looks back a historic event commemorated every year on September fifth—the Battle of the Chesapeake.

00:01:44: This decisive naval battle took place in seventeen eighty-one during the American War of Independence.

00:01:50: It remains a landmark reference for The French Navy, symbolizing a tactical success that ultimately led to

00:02:05: strategic victory.

00:02:17: A victory that was far from expected at the time, we naturally think of the skill of the crews.

00:02:23: And indeed... ...the expertise of the sailors was essential!

00:02:28: But if we examine the battle in greater detail,... We also find a number of decisive elements that bring us back to the fundamental principles of naval warfare.

00:02:37: The fundamentals of naval combat begin with information superiority.

00:02:42: It means seeing farther, detecting threats sooner making decisions faster and striking effectively first while preserving your freedom of maneuver.

00:02:53: On that day, September fifth one of the key factors behind French superiority was the use a unique and highly effective signal code on board French fleet.

00:03:04: as Admiral de Grasse needed to issue orders he was able do so quickly and efficiently.

00:03:10: He seized initiative upon arrival.

00:03:12: He was the one controlling the decision-making process, and as a result he turned this situation in his favor.

00:03:23: You mentioned these enduring fundamentals.

00:03:25: yet the twentieth century saw tremendous acceleration in innovation particularly through two world wars.

00:03:32: Indeed... The conflicts of the twentyth century greatly accelerated progress.

00:03:38: This acceleration is driven by scientific discoveries that quickly found military applications.

00:03:44: The major conflicts of the twentieth century taught navies across the world that naval warfare was becoming increasingly multi-dimensional.

00:03:53: In many ways, the history of the twentyth century which is also the History Of Tals Is the story of conquering and mastering these different dimensions of Naval Warfare.

00:04:04: What does this mean in practical terms?

00:04:07: During World War I it became clear that battles at sea could be conducted through aircraft.

00:04:13: They also discovered that warfare could take place beneath the surface through submarines.

00:04:18: These major trends only intensified after the Second World War, with an expansion of possibilities in every domain and a growing pace of technological progress.

00:04:31: Detecting farther and faster has always been one of Navy's key challenges throughout the centuries From the seventeenth century to present day.

00:04:40: The underlying requirement remained remarkably unchanged as Admiral Eric Chaperone reminds us.

00:05:12: so as not to be caught by surprise and able react quickly.

00:05:16: Fundamentally, Tulless's mission is more effective but also make forces more effective.

00:05:25: A force made up of a number individual units.

00:05:28: that too isn't new challenge.

00:05:31: In the days of wooden warships there were already isolated units and organized naval forces.

00:05:36: The objective was making this whole system coherent coordinated efficient.

00:05:41: The one hundred sixteen years of shared history between the French Navy and Tallis are in many ways, the story of that operational performance.

00:05:49: It is a story high-performing units whether operating on surface beneath sea or air because Tallis present across all these domains And it's even present space through satellite systems support both individual unit an entire forces.

00:06:06: History shows us time again those who were able to surprise their adversary Those who are able to seize the initiative, Are most often ones that gain advantage and ultimately achieve success.

00:06:17: Sailors refer what is known as OODA loop Observe, Orient Decide Act Today across each of these four stages The challenge is accelerate the cycle To move faster So we can act before the adversary And stay one step ahead.

00:06:34: This brings us a fundamental constant of naval warfare.

00:06:38: To give you sense scale A modern French Navy frigate carries roughly the same number of officers as a destroyer escort did after the Second World War.

00:06:49: And yet, the detection capabilities and combat systems available today on a Frem multi-mission frigate bear absolutely no comparison to those of a postwar escort

00:07:01: ship.".

00:07:02: So how is it possible to operate with similar command structure today?

00:07:07: Well... The answer is that our detection capabilities have increased dramatically.

00:07:12: But at the same time, Our ability to process information support decision-making and connect different elements of a force has expanded on an equally remarkable scale.

00:07:29: Can we say operational needs drive innovation from industry?

00:07:33: Or do innovations themselves create new ways fighting in approaches to naval strategy?

00:07:38: The answer certainly both.

00:07:41: A current example would be drones.

00:07:44: Drones emerged from technological breakthroughs in miniaturization and digital technologies.

00:07:49: Sailors immediately recognized their potential, yet drones were not initially developed to meet a specific operational need.

00:07:57: Their initial appearance was made possible by technology itself.

00:08:01: They simply offered numerous advantages.

00:08:04: For example, TALES plays the leading role of the MMCM Mine Warfare program A Franco-British initiative.

00:08:12: The first system has just been delivered to the French Navy and the Royal Navy.

00:08:16: One of the major advantages of drones is that they allow humans be removed, or at least kept a safe distance from danger.

00:08:24: It's two-way relationship.

00:08:26: Threats in operational requirements drive research But research itself also creates new operational opportunities for needs For innovation.

00:08:35: there have to be constant dialogue between scientists engineers and sailors.

00:08:41: There must be a kind of virtuous feedback loop that allows lessons learned in the field to be fed back on a regular basis and over sufficiently short cycles so that equipment can be improved, and systems continue to evolve.

00:08:53: Why does innovation progress so quickly during periods of conflict?

00:08:57: Precisely because operational feedback arrives at an extremely rapid pace.

00:09:02: On the other hand history provides many examples.

00:09:05: innovations or discoveries did not immediately find their users.

00:09:09: Take radar technology, for instance.

00:09:12: While it was not yet fully mastered operational prototypes already existed as early as nineteen oh four.

00:09:18: The people behind the Titanic would certainly have benefited from having such systems on board and many navies Would undoubtedly have appreciated having them installed on their ships As well.

00:09:28: Yet in France It Was Not Until The Second World War And Indeed During The war itself That Radar Began To be Deployed On Naval Vessels.

00:09:37: Sometimes inventions appear very early, perhaps too early.

00:09:42: And the dialogue between designers and users does not take place under conditions that allow those innovations to find immediate practical applications.

00:09:50: There is a third stakeholder That should be overlooked in all of this The state.

00:09:56: It's the State that supports these acquisitions.

00:10:03: The

00:10:09: French Navy's operational superiority is therefore built upon a three-fold foundation, the mastery of warfare by sailors technological superiority and the sustained financial commitment of the state.

00:10:23: It is precisely this close partnership between the French navy in the defense industry that has enabled Tallis to become world leader in sonar systems over years.

00:10:41: However, what truly established Tallis as the world leader in sonar systems and particularly toad-array sonar system was nuclear deterrence.

00:10:50: It was during that era of nuclear deterrents that French Navy reached a level of excellence especially on the field anti submarine warfare And it is fact both state and navy never lowered their guard even after the end cold war that helped maintain this exceptionally high standard.

00:11:09: That sustained level of operational demand enabled Thales to continue investing over the years, and it is also what allows the company today... ...to remain at the forefront in this field worldwide.

00:11:37: In Europe, only France and the United Kingdom maintain their own independent nuclear deterrent forces.

00:11:51: For France, deterrence relies on two complementary components—nuclear ballistic missile submarines which ensure a permanent presence at sea.

00:11:59: —and combat aircraft capable of carrying nuclear

00:12:02: weapons.".

00:12:08: When we look at coherence that surrounds nuclear deterrence... ...and particularly this strategic oceanic force… It becomes clear how interconnected the entire system is.

00:12:19: We need sonars aboard submarines, we need hull-mounted sonars on frigates... ...we need towed array sonars….

00:12:27: …we need dipping sonars deployed from helicopters and we need acoustic boys for maritime patrol aircraft.

00:12:35: This isn't a collection of isolated assets.

00:12:38: it's complex integrated systems.

00:12:41: As result We need an industry capable of maintaining a comprehensive systems-level vision, rather than simply placing individual technical solutions side by side.

00:12:55: I would add that the strength of the French Navy in anti-submarine warfare does not rely solely on quality its crews or on Thales' excellence.

00:13:04: It's the quality their partnership makes difference.

00:13:08: Let me give you concrete example.

00:13:11: Young TAL-S engineers and young naval officers specializing in anti-submarine warfare attend joint training modules within an academy created by TAL S. This allows these different communities to interact, to compare their perspectives and share respective needs & expectations.

00:13:29: It gives young engineers a better understanding of the environment in which sailors operate And of challenges they face on daily basis.

00:13:37: Conversely, young officers gain valuable insight into technological developments and the possibilities offered by emerging technologies.

00:13:44: These programs build relationships designed to last over time.

00:13:49: Real partnerships are formed Partnerships that go well beyond a simple customer-supplier relationship.

00:13:55: In other words genuine partnerships are created.

00:13:58: It is truly a shared journey.

00:14:07: The volume of collected data continues to increase, and data processing systems incorporating artificial intelligence are becoming more powerful every day.

00:14:17: Are we truly witnessing a technological revolution today?

00:14:21: Admiral Eric Chaperone shares his perspective...

00:14:24: What I find fascinating when looking back on these one hundred sixteen years have shared history is that there has never really been a sudden and complete break.

00:14:33: It is a story of technological evolution and technological progress, sometimes involving significant leaps but overall marked by remarkable continuity.

00:14:44: Sensors ranges increase weapons reach farther force integration becomes increasingly sophisticated.

00:14:51: yet there is no fundamental disruption today however with the introduction of digital technologies And with quantum technologies now being developed in our laboratories and expected to emerge over the coming years, The question of disruption is becoming increasingly relevant.

00:15:13: Another extremely important area that we have not discussed so far is electronic warfare.

00:15:18: Electronic warfare involves detection systems capable of identifying for example... ...the presence a missile seeker or hostile radar.

00:15:26: More broadly today we speak about what's known as electromagnetic spectrum dominance.

00:15:32: The electromagnetic spectrum is essential for building and maintaining situational awareness.

00:15:37: The challenge, therefore to make the best possible use of that spectrum while denying it's used to an adversary.

00:15:43: How can you transmit radar signals or communicate by radio without being detected By your opponent?

00:15:48: And at the same time how Can You ensure That Your adversary Is disrupted jammed and unable To build An accurate picture Of the situation?

00:15:57: this is what we mean by electromagnetic Spectrum dominance.

00:16:01: We are at the very heart of what modern armed forces refer to as multi-domain operations.

00:16:06: This is above all, The Information Domain and TALES is at the forefront of this field!

00:16:12: The company is currently developing systems that enable a force whether naval land based or operating in another domain To understand measure and control its electromagnetic signature In other words to manage an adapt that signature according to the operational situation The environment and the circumstances, so that it can be employed in the most effective way possible.

00:16:38: There is little doubt... ...that this shared history between Thales and French Navy will continue to intensify even years ahead.

00:16:46: Underlying this future is a critical challenge for an increasingly complex world.

00:16:52: Sovereignty

00:16:54: A nation cannot be sovereign without autonomy And it cannot be sovereign without independence.

00:17:00: Possessing the technologies that ensure the operational superiority we have been discussing is therefore a direct contribution to national sovereignty.

00:17:10: The stakes are enormous because, at the end of the day, sovereignty is something very simple—our freedom to choose our own future!

00:17:20: To do that, our countries must continue to remain at the forefront of

00:17:24: technology."

00:17:26: And from this perspective it seems absolutely essential that we continue to maintain a strong scientific foundation.

00:17:35: We must continue to educate scientists, we must continue train engineers because it is only at this price will preserve our sovereignty in the long term.

00:17:46: That's the price of Sovereignty especially in periods marked by technological disruption.

00:17:58: This was Waves Under The Sea A podcast by Taylor.

00:18:02: Our thanks to Admiral Eric Chaperone and Jean-Marie Kowalski.

00:18:06: Join us again soon for a new episode.